While Walker may have indeed run on a broader "what's right for Wisconsin" platform, his oft-repeated suggestions that his post-election moves are entirely in line with his campaign-era promises don't appear to stand up.This has been a theme on this blog for months, and it needs to be highlighted in publicity about Walker and the need for his recall.
Politifact has deemed "False" Walker's claim that he campaigned throughout the election on even the most controversial proposals contained in the budget repair bill -- such as ending collective bargaining rights for public workers.
Walker has had
Details and recent updates, here.
Furthermore, Walker has not been rated "Mostly True," or "True" by PolitiFact since May 8th, PolitiFact records show.
Is this the kind of person that should be leading this state?
Walker is simply walking in the footsteps of Tommy Thompson. What we have watched since Thompson is a solid "divide and conquer" (the "masses") strategy. In the past, whenever the rich gained the upper hand, the poor and middle classes united to push back. Not this time. Thompson targeted the poor, relying on ludicrous claims that the public accepted as fact. It was predictable (and predicted) that the next target would be the middle class, using many of the same strategies, similar rhetoric, used against the poor. The poor have been drained out, so of course it's necessary to move up to the middle class. That's tougher because the middle class has tools to fight back -- something the poor never had. Still, with the people now divided, it's hard to say how this will all turn out. In the past, the poor were the foot soldiers, so to speak, of change. But today, the poor have to ask themselves why they should join a fight to benefit only the middle class (sorry, but no one believes in "trickle down" anymore).
ReplyDelete"Proven false by Politifact" doesn't hold a lot of water, IMHO.
ReplyDeletePolitifact tends to break statements into small pieces; they rate those pieces individually and base their 'ratings' on the sum and average of those pieces.
A great hypothetical example on the MJS forums was stated by 'TosaGuy':
TosaGuy said...
"Scott Walker: The sky is blue.
Politifact: The sky is not blue when it's dark out or when there are clouds in the sky -- then it is white or gray. Since the sky is these colors more than it is blue we rate Walker's claim Barely True."
Another snippet....and you will find the articles referenced if you SEEK well:
"Scott Walker ran on cutting the deficit and requiring concessions from public employees to help him. He vowed to slash pay and benefits for public sector unions. Anyone familiar with Walker's efforts to balance budgets as Milwaukee county executive understood that collective bargaining requirements made his task nearly impossible. And while the specific collective bargaining proposal in the budget repair bill was not a regular line in his stump speech, it was also no secret that he would make significant changes to Wisconsin's collective bargaining rules.
In a Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel article on August 30, 2010, (A) Ryan Murray, a policy adviser for the Walker campaign, explaining Walker's plan to revamp public health insurance, said, "The way the proposal would work is we would take the choice (of health insurers) out of the collective bargaining process.” Does taking the choice out of CB mean ending CB for health care? The reporter certainly seemed to think so. "Murray said school districts often have some of the most expensive health benefits in Wisconsin and could receive cheaper insurance through the state if they didn't have to negotiate with unions about who would insure their members."
Continued.....
(Continued from previous post...)
ReplyDeleteWhat was clear to the reporter was also clear to the teachers' unions, who reacted to the report thusly: "Our members oppose taking away their rights to collective bargaining, so they would definitely raise their voices against it," said Christina Brey, a spokesman for WEAC.
So a top Walker adviser made an on-the-record comment that both a reporter and a union representative understood as meaning an end to a part of collective bargaining. And another teachers' union, the American Federation of Teachers, found Murray's comment so threatening that they included it in a flyer warning teachers to vote against Walker who, they claimed, wanted to "void parts of labor contracts."
Later, in a Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel article that ran on October 29, 2010, just three days before the election, Richard Abelson, head of the local AFSCME chapter, said, "The premise is still that they want to bypass collective bargaining and adopt wages and working conditions through the budget process."
Even after the election, following a Dec. 7, 2010 Walker press club forum appearance, Abelson was quoted in the Journal-Sentinel, "His union-busting attitude shouldn't surprise anybody."
If Scott Walker did not campaign on the specific collective bargaining proposal in his budget repair bill, it was no secret that Walker would be proposing dramatic changes to the state's relationship with its employees — changes he made clear would include collective bargaining.
Some of you just weren't paying attention." Yep.
An anonymous poster on another blog pointed out:
"It is disingenuous for members of the recall effort to cry foul that the Governor did not talk about collective bargaining during the campaign. Modification of the collective bargaining laws was only possible because the GOP won the Assembly and the Senate. If the Democrats would have won one of the houses, this strategy would not have been possible. Walker would have had to implement a different strategy to balance the budget. Control of the Senate and Assembly were in question up to the election. Why would you campaign on a strategy you may not have the opportunity to implement?"
Just days before the election last year, the Oshkosh Northwestern published an article based on a lengthy Q&A with the candidate. The salient passage: "He said he would also ask all state workers for wage and benefit concessions to
ReplyDeletehelp cut costs, and he supports giving furloughs to any unions that don't help find savings through collective bargaining, a tactic he is employing in
Milwaukee County." So, within a week of the election, he was still specifically stating that collective bargaining would occur, and that tough negotiations were in the offing. Clearly, he was lying. Recall. (http://media.journalinteractive.com/documents/Oshkosh_Northwestern1.pdf)
Everyone can complain about PolitiFact here and there. I do, too.
ReplyDeleteBut it's one mainstream media benchmark, and when it comes to Walker, it has found he has more ratings with "false" in the finding than any other Wisconsin figure.
24 of 36, so run with that.
This is the second time I have heard the utterly ridiculous argument that Walker couldn't talk about union busting during his campaign because he didn't know if he would have a compliant legistlature. If that were really an issue, he couldn't have promised ANYTHING. Where do these people come from?
ReplyDeleteWalker is the best thing to happen to our state in a long time. Now the organized criminals known as public unions are upset and that is a good thing for all the working class taxpayers.
ReplyDeleteDoyle and the Democrats ruined the Thompson initiatives, they ran up huge deficits, stole funds from programs illegally, used gas tax money for BS programs, misused federal funds..........and not a word about him the entire article. Yuppers, this is an unbiased place where I can trust what is said....NOT Give 'em hell Scott!
ReplyDeleteAmazing. I say Walker, you say Doyle. Conflationitis.
ReplyDeleteI never trust anyone who posts as "anonymous"
ReplyDelete"when it comes to Walker, it has found he has more ratings with "false" in the finding than any other Wisconsin figure."
ReplyDeleteJust remember, Mr. Rowen, that Poltifact *Wisconsin* didn't exist before Walker took office, hence no ratings on previous governors at all to compare to the flurry of ratings on Walker.
Steve Taylor: Trust your own research skills if you feel you can't trust an 'anonymous' comment.
ReplyDeleteAdvice to find the truth: Find source documents and don't trust articles written with bias or 'spin' in either direction.
To the last Anony: Facts is facts, buddy. You and Walker should take responsibility. He's batting .666 False.
ReplyDeleteWalker to attend anti-recall rally in Eau Claire
ReplyDeleteRead more: http://chippewa.com/news/local/article_e6b17f20-155c-11e1-a707-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1ergGf4l1
It is two blocks down from the Wisconsin Democratic Party recall center.
How many pants on fire lies will be tell?
Regardless whether he ran on this platform or not, Walker admitted in Senate testimony that ending collective bargaining is NOT going to save any money. Why do it then? Because he had marching orders from ALEC. Is is just a coincidence that John Kasich pulled the same crap in Ohio?
ReplyDeletebibeefybottom: Oh, my...does it have to be clarified yet again?
ReplyDeletePlease do yourself a favor and go back to the ENTIRE taped Senate testimony of Walker...be sure it's not Kucinich's edited youtube video.
Walker is asked if the requirement of re-certifying unions on an annual basis 'saves any money'.
He tries to explain that it give the public employee the opportunity to save money, but Kucinich just can't bear to allow Walker to explain that.
Walker then states "that particular part" (meaning the annual re-certification)"doesn't save any money."
I guess for some, if a claim is only partially false, then it must mean it's true? Riddle me that one Batman.
ReplyDeleteYeah, why would we trust a site like Politifact? They must skew the information as they see fit. It's not like they take their work seriously or have won any awards....oh wait...is that a Pulitzer?
ReplyDeleteI have two daughters who work for the state. They are now bringing home $300 a month less than before Walker's Law was passed. So I guess it's costing them $3600 a year to have the "opportunity" to save $1000.
ReplyDeleteOr - that $ 3600.00 SAVED thier jobs? Let alone they get that $ back in benifits.
ReplyDeleteAll of the "I talked about collective bargaining in the campaign before I did it" arguments I have seen quote small snippets and brochures (including a tea party one mentioning ONLY health care bargaining). He did not CAMPAIGN on that idea. Only those knowing him from his time in Milwaukee county would have known that plan. The rest of the state was clueless.
ReplyDeleteIf Scott Walker wanted to "SAVE MONEY" then he could do his own lawn care and live in his own house! Wisconsin Taxpayers pay $250,000 a year for housekeeping and lawn mowing for the "Governors Mansion". Wisconsin is one of only 6, yes 6 of 50, states that even has a "Governors Mansion". If he wanted to cut the spending why doesn't he "Lead by Example"? Because he is a LIAR! Go check the facts, and anyone who IS NOT a millionaire would want to wring his neck and RECALL this Governor who is Under the Influence of Koch Money and an overall Lying S.O.B.
ReplyDeleteWalker is doing exactly what he said he would do, balance the budget while not raising taxes. I know the extra $46.00 that teachers have to pay to get better benefits than the rest of us hurts, but, recalling Walker to get some paid off politician to restore the public elite, and make us pay for it through higher taxes, and at the same time put our kids in debt, and our grandchildren, and their children, is not only irresponsible, it's criminal.
ReplyDeleteHe cut the pay of all public employees EXCEPT all of the elected, overpaid employees! Cut their pay too because their pay and benifits getting cut would save a whole lot more than cutting the union employees!
ReplyDeleteWalker is nothing but a lying !@#$. All we heard was how much teachers were overpaid in milwaukee. Well what about the rest of the teachers in the state. The teachers up here where I live make about 43,00.00 a year if that. Not no 100,00.00 like he stated. What a pathetic excuse for a human being he is. Why is it he didnt take a paycut? Well lets see why, because he is a greedy ****. And has to pay back his crooked Koch (cock) brothers. Wheres all the jobs he has promised? Not many companies want to come to Wisconsin and start a bussiness because of all the bs he has started.Like many say his pink slip is not far away.
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget the "half truths" statements. Add that to the tally and your knocking on the total number!
ReplyDeleteSeems to me that the Walker recall is a good thing for Wisconsin as it will bring in more money to Wisconsin than anthing else Walker has done.
ReplyDeleteI voted for him once, I'll vote for him again if he gets recalled
ReplyDeleteThe truth. The whole truth. Nothing but the truth.
ReplyDeleteSomething we never get from Walker.
Reply to this anonymous: "Walker is doing exactly what he said he would do, balance the budget while not raising taxes. I know the extra $46.00 that teachers"...
ReplyDeleteYou need to check your facts. My wife is a teacher with 17 years service in the Green Bay system (24 overall), Masters degree in Educ., etc. Between the increase in health insurance and pension contributions, along with the small pay cut she was given, her income was reduced by just under $10,000 a year. That was a 20% cut in her paycheck. Her long-term disability coverage was dropped, her health coverage was reduced, and co-pays are going up starting in January 2012. How much of her paycheck those equal is yet to be determined, since we don't know how often she'll get sick, injured or what-have-you. Gather your fact before you spout off at the mouth, eh?
Also: Walker withheld his intentions, then described his plan as "dropping the bomb."
ReplyDeleteWe knew he was anti-union, but he did not say during the campaign that he intended to nearly eliminate collective bargaining, force unions to avoid annual re-certification elections, etc.
obackingLike any other working person I am surprised to see some people defending this crook. I know why they do that, it's a family tradition of voting for a particular party regardless of how that will affect their own lives. I am a school tecaher and I do not have anything against the rich. however, I do not want to become a slave to the rich which is something all these reublican pricks are advocating for...
ReplyDeleteBack in November, "Anonymous,"brought up an interesting, but deceptive exercise in logic that he accuses Politifact of employing when criticising Governor Walker's deviations from the truth.
ReplyDeleteHe uses a hypothetical statement from the Governor to illustrate his point--"The sky is blue." He then picks it apart by making observations like, "The sky is not blue when it's dark out, or when there are clouds in the sky," and adds that, "since the sky is these colors more than blue," the statement by Walker can be considered as only barely true.
Such a systematic dissection using reason would be absolutely appropriate if the Governor were exploring a scientific proposition but, unfortunately, it is usually politician who employ the use of spin by making such specific distinctions. If Politifact criticises these spins by questioning the context in which they are used,as well as questioning if are really true, it is effectively doing it's job. It is really "Anonymous," who uses picky observations to stretch the use of reason, and who is therefore, denying the truth with semantic arguments.
Of course we are free to dispute the validity of Politifact's observations, but it is a matter of necessity for them to examine all of the subtle ways that various politicans employee spin. This is required because they have a responsibility to make thorough assesments about the actual, and implied meaning, of each political statements.
It is really "anonymous," who is distorting the governor's positions by using an innapropriate process of elimination that is really more appropriate in determining scientific facts, not the ideological statements of politicians.
251001
Ted Bistrup, cry me a river.
ReplyDeleteI contribute to my health insurance, I don't get a pension and I work 12 months a year.
Let's say Teachers work 40 weeks a year (probably less with all the vacation days, but whatever) that would mean that to work the equilalent hours that a 40 hour a week person would work during the course of a year, a teacher would need to put in a 52 hour work week (some might, but the VAST MAJORITY don't). That doesn't even to take into consideration the "Prep Periods" teachers get during the work day. I have worked in 3 different school districts (not as a teacher) and teachers typically do not use prep periods to do actual work (some do, most don't, especially after they have been teaching for many years). The last district I worked in, the Teachers had 2 prep periods and lunch (lunch is typically a period), so they only taught 5 classes during a normal 8 period day. Now it may be argued that the prep period may be no different from work hours for non-public sector works, but ONLY IF they are used for actual school work.(I knew one teacher that would go for a run during his lunch hour and then eat lunch during one of his prep periods)(I knew other teachers that would sit around and gossip during prep) Again, this is not ALL teachers but MOST.
Pension: again, cry me a river. How many none union workers get a pension? Please raise your hands... (no hands raised). Now if you say form a union, then be prepared to pay $10 for a gallon of milk or $200 a night for a stay at the Holiday Inn (or any non 4 star hotel) Imagine if union workers built your phone or made your shoes and then triple the cost of those items (or more) and tell me unions and CB are good. Think about how affordable a good car would be if the unions hadn't bankrupted the car industry.
So I don't feel for Teachers at all when now they are just paying like everyone else (and still get 3 months summer vacation)
Please see the last page.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.weac.org/LUC/newsletters/October%20Lakewood%20Lookout.pdf
Anonymous - I believe in leadership - the Governor has looked out for himself and his friends at the cost of many state professional employee's pay checks. Teachers in Wisconsin are poorly paid in the first place versus what they would get paid in Canada. We think that the people who teach our children are worth a decent wage and benefits. Your pointless nastiness demeans you.
ReplyDeleteUltimately, all of you are subject to my agenda. You are poor, I am wealthy. I will continue to oppress and eventually control the 99% Scott Walker is my puppet. David Koch
ReplyDeleteKirk Steele - Governor Walker is looking out for the STATE OF WISCONSIN, not the employees of the State of Wisconsin.
ReplyDeleteHow many of us in the private sector (blue-collar, non-union) get a say in who our company provided insurer will be? NONE that is how many! How many of that same group get their employers to pay for their health care or pension. NONE again.
Why don't you asked teachers in Canada about their pension or heathcare and see how their pay stacks up (or better yet post some facts).
Wisconsin falls about right in the middle of the national average for teacher pay.
http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state
So instead of bashing the Governor, why don't you people come up with a way to save the State from going bankrupt and don't forget you NEED TO MAKE EVERONE HAPPY in the process.