The Los Angeles Times editorially gloated:
But that's perfectly OK with us, because California can use the money. Our state's future high-speed rail line from San Diego to San Francisco and Sacramento is already hitting snags, and we expect many more before the system is complete. The $624 million from Wisconsin and Ohio, combined with the $3 billion in federal funds the state has already received, will help smooth the way. Thanks a billion, cheeseheads.Well, here's the Friday follow-up.
SACRAMENTO, Calif. — California lawmakers approved billions of dollars Friday in construction financing for the initial segment of the nation's first dedicated high-speed rail line connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco.
The move marked a major political victory for Democratic Gov. Jerry Brown and the Obama administration. Both have promoted bullet trains as job generators and clean transportation alternatives.
"No economy can grow faster than its transportation network allows," U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in a statement applauding the legislative vote. "With highways between California cities congested and airspace at a premium, Californians desperately need an alternative
As goes California so go the US. That is a saying from the 80s. We can only hope. Congratulations to CA - vacationing there looks attractive.
ReplyDeleteCalifornia is bankrupt and they are spending money on rail?
ReplyDeleteI guess that is the leadership and fiscal responsibility you get when your state is run by a bunch of lefties.
This is no different than a bankrupt family going out and buying a new boat or motorcycle when they have no money to pay for their home or food.
And the rest of the country will end up bailing them out.
Brilliant!
Sigh.
ReplyDeleteAnd if Walker gets his way, Wisconsinites' federal tax dollars will fund other states' insurance exchanges, too, but not our own.
Is that enough reason to occupy the Capitol again? I don't see why not.
"I guess that is the leadership and fiscal responsibility you get when your state is run by a bunch of lefties.
ReplyDelete"
California is spending less on the rail project than Wisconsin is spending on one measley cloverleaf.
There was once a time when Republicans could do math.
More fun to go to California and ride their train.
ReplyDeleteCalifornia is spending less on the rail project than Wisconsin is spending on one measley cloverleaf.
ReplyDeletePlease show me where one clover leaf cost anywhere near 3.624 billion dollars CA is spending on rail. The entire transportation budget in WI is 5.85 billion over 2 years
I guess to your point, there was a time when democrats could actually think and use real facts instead of lying. Or, you simply have no clue.
Reagan and the Austrian steroid monster were lefties?
ReplyDelete@ anon 8:41
ReplyDeleteFeel free to occupy the capitol again. However, please shower and try not to vandalize the property again this time.
RD, Wisconsin's Zoo and Marquette interchanges will run up a cost of a cool billion each. You're right that I missed the 3 billion figure here. But the context was the 810 million Wisconsin has decided to let other states have.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of facts and logic, Republicans continue to deny the following irrefutable facts:
tracks last longer than roads, with less maintenance.
Track rolling stock lasts longer than anything that turns a rubber wheel on a blacktop road. With less maintenance.
Seriously, RD, visit an engineering school some time. You and your kind are increasingly despised and loathed.
The current projection for the Zoo Interchange is $1.7 billion. The Marquette cost $800 million The I-94 N/S project from Milwaukee to the IL line is projected at $1.9 billion. The entire SE WI 'free'way plan was pegged at %6.4 billion.
ReplyDelete@anon
ReplyDeleteHow convenient to "miss" the 3 billion dollar price tag. Just a small accounting error right?
Yes, rolling stock may last longer...
The point you are missing is that it is not needed in Milwaukee and will be unused by 90% of the citizens in SEWI. Everyone uses the roads and most people utilize the interstate system. The line usage estimates from Mil-Mad were overpriced, way over estimated as far as ridership and they still couldn't make the numbers work.
Furthermore, the idea that one state should blow billions of fed dollars, because if they don't, another state will is idiotic to say the least. In case you haven't been paying attention, DC has a debt problem as well.
California can't even afford to pay their existing debts, yet they are taking on more outlandish spending on these projects.
Take an economics class sometime. You and your type are increasingly despised and loathed.
What kind of mainstream coverage is this getting in WI? Anything?
ReplyDeleteRD
ReplyDeleteTry to be kind. Trains are cool. California is lucky to get our money. You should be happy since we didn't get the train, you win. What's wrong? Why worry about bloggers?
The difference between a bankrupt family purchasing expensive toys and using federal funds SET ASIDE FOR THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE is that the use of the HS rail system would be public vs the private one of the family.
ReplyDeleteBut you're so predictable, Rayguns: if it's not about you, not for you, you wouldn't like it or you wouldn't use it, well, then it must be no good, right? So typical of the right-wingers too: ME, ME, ME and screw you.
Said HS rail system is also an investment in the future, a transportation system that would spur development and interstate commerce, including tourism, along the I-94 corridor, and connect 3 states and thus four major business centers and major midwestern universities and colleges. Of course, THAT IS a "Forward!" vision, not one the your Dinosaur-in-Chief claims to have. It's all about options, choice and freedom, the values your side claims--again, falsely--to solely own. You dinosaurs could continue to drive your SUVs along the freeway part of the corridor, when gas reaches $5.00/gallon and up. You are FREE to do that, while I shall ride in comfort, listening to music, napping, or reading and arrive at my destination rested and ready to take on the challenges.
Sad to say for you, Rayguns, this may not come about in your lifetime, and perhaps not in mine, either, but it will be coming. It is the future. You will keep braying as your large dinosaur feet sink into the quicksands of the oil-based economy. Watch out! Asteroid shower!
And while we're quibbling about the facts, I'd love you to back up your contentions the "line usage estimates Mil-Mad were over-priced, way over estimated as far as ridership and they still couldn't make the numbers work." All we have is your say-so and that just ain't good enough.
PS: Take a history class sometime, or a biology class. You and your type are generally studied--as the ones who failed to adapt.
"How convenient to "miss" the 3 billion dollar price tag. Just a small accounting error right?
ReplyDelete"
Considering that 1. I don't live in California, and 2. Wisconsin's project involves upgrading tracks on existing rights of way and is therefore far lower cost, yes, it's a small accounting error.
"
The point you are missing is that it is not needed in Milwaukee and will be unused by 90% of the citizens in SEWI."
90% of the roads in Wisconsin are unused by 90% of the citizens of Wisconsin.
Furthermore, we already have existing roads in the Zoo and Marquette project areas. We are spending 2 billion to speed up trips through the area by a few minutes. A far more frivolous expense than trains will ever be.
" Everyone uses the roads and most people utilize the interstate system. "
Mostly because they don't have a better option for the moment.
Those who want everyone to pay for the choo choo are the selfish ones. Why should a family in Marinette, Rhinelander or Ladysmith subsidize your folly trolley from Milwaukee to Madison.
ReplyDeleteIf you want a train, move to a bigger city like NY, Chicago or better yet Tokyo. Milwaukee simply doesn't have the population density or the need for this folly trolley.
To your point, they upped the ridership numbers by over 100k and it still needed about 5-7.5 million a year in taxpayer subsidies to keep it moving. That was also with a avg ticket price of $24.73. Many would just take the badger bus express for $20 if they didn't want to drive themselves.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/111302049.html
Even a gas guzzling Denali can make it to Madison and back with <$20 in gas. Plus, if you ride the train you will need another taxi to get you to your final destination once you arrive.
And for an oldie but goodie, remember this politifact they gave Walker a "false" rating on? I wonder when they will issue a retractions? No wonder Politifact has no credibility whatsoever.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2010/nov/30/scott-walker/governor-elect-scott-walker-says-milwaukee-madison/
Glad Walker killed it. All WI needs is another mode of subsidized transportation.
Hey RD, Why should a family in Marinette, Rhinelander or Ladysmith subsidize your folly widening I94 between Milwaukee & the Illinois border? Same question, same answer. It’s why you miss the point. What do you think the best use of federal funding is? My wife and I have driven I94 to the Illinois suburbs 3 dozen times this year to visit grandchildren and her ailing mother. Widening to four lanes will not save us any time on the trip (unless I wish to risk a speeding ticket). What is the value of a 1.9 billion dollar widening?
ReplyDeleteComparing a high speed train between Los Angles and San Francisco to one between Chicago and Minneapolis (via Milwaukee and Madison) makes sense as the distances are similar: 382 miles LA to SF; 422 miles Chicago to Minneapolis via Milwaukee; 337 miles Milwaukee to Minneapolis. (The Milwaukee-Madison line was the first step.) Direct flight times are roughly 1 hr 20 min between LA and SFO and Chicago and Minneapolis; 1 hr 10 min between Milwaukee and Minneapolis. Add 30 min taxi between central city and airport each way (1 hr total); 1 hr departure check-in and security check and 30 minute arrival at gate and get out to get taxi and you have roughly a four hour trip, similar to the high speed rail downtown to downtown while driving is 6 to 7 hours. Try working on your computer while driving. No wonder California is happy to have the money Wisconsin and Ohio rejected while business people in Chicago and Minneapolis wonder at the folly of Waukesha republicans.
"
ReplyDeleteThose who want everyone to pay for the choo choo are the selfish ones. Why should a family in Marinette, Rhinelander or Ladysmith subsidize your folly trolley from Milwaukee to Madison.
"
Why should a family in Madison subsidize the highway system in Rhinelander?
Why should Marinette charge the state for a large layout of 4 lane roads where 2 lanes will serve just as well for far less cost?
All infrastructure is subsidized.
Road infrastructure more than any other kind. As has been pointed out, the WI roads budget is 6 billion, and that is not fully funded by the gas tax.
There was once a time when Republicans could do math. It's a real pity that day is past.
Gentle Readers. Reagan's Disciple is giving you talking points from groups who are paranoid about something called "Agenda 21." These groups think that the UN wants to herd people into cities connected by rail and force them to live an urban existence whilst saving farmland for farming. No sprawl allowed. These people are so afraid that their right to build a McMansion will be taken away that they fight the very thing that would make living farther from the central cities possible - commuter trains. There is no logic to RDs dislike of trains or cities or zoning or sustainable living. It is pure dogma perpetuated by those hoping to profit from speaking engagements to survivalist types. I am sorry for you RD. You will probably never live in the exurbs because you won't be able to buy the gas.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see the old, "Hate cars, love trains" crowd is in the house, but don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for yourselves. This country evolved from trains to automobiles and YOU dinosaurs want to take us back in time.
ReplyDeleteSorry, put on your bib overalls and engineer cap and meet at TrainFest at State Fair Park this fall or whatever east side coffee house you frequent.
Just understand that there isn't going to be a train, thanks to our upstanding Governor who held up his campaign promise to kill the deal.
Quite honestly, I couldn't be happier. I'm also glad that Doyle had the common sense to back off on it when he had a chance as well. Even Doyle realized the fiscal nightmare that the folly trolley presented to working Wisconsin families and knew better.
Thank you Walker and Doyle.
Why do people who hate the high speed train idea think people who like trains hate cars?
ReplyDeleteWhy do they always bring up the taxi?
Are airports ok? How do you get from the airport to your house? Do you drive? Do you take a taxi? Do the same thing from a train station.
@ Anonymous:
ReplyDelete"I am sorry for you RD. You will probably never live in the exurbs because you won't be able to buy the gas."
Don't worry about RD, Anonymous. After attending the tractor pull in the primordial swamp, RD will subsist off of the canned goods buried in his backyard and the squirrels he can shoot with the buried ammo, until the Rapture takes him up. And, of course, leaves the rest of us liberals, progressives, atheists and non-Evangelical Christians here.
"Glad to see the old, "Hate cars, love trains" crowd is in the house, but don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for yourselves. This country evolved from trains to automobiles and YOU dinosaurs want to take us back in time."
ReplyDeleteThat is, evolved from a cost effective way of moving things around to a form that is far more expensive and a bigger liability in every possible way to our country.
Get this through your head:
Tracks cost less to build than roads.
Tracks cost less to maintain than roads.
Tracks pollute the groundwater less than roads.
Rolling stock lasts longer than anything that runs on blacktop.
Rolling stock pollutes less than anything that runs on blacktop.
(The particulates in the air in Wisconsin today? Mostly flecks of rubber tire.)
"Sorry, put on your bib overalls and engineer cap and meet at TrainFest at State Fair Park this fall or whatever east side coffee house you frequent."
Sorry, you ignorant moron, but you're the one who is acting on an affectation and ignoring practical matters.
Engineering schools and societies used to be republican strongholds.
Not any more. And you (and the governor) are the reason why.
@ anon 7:22,
ReplyDeleteThere we have liberalism 101.
When all else fails, resort to name calling.
Way to come through!
"There we have liberalism 101."
ReplyDeleteRD, you have proven here again and again, that you are thick headed and stupid.
You have been presented with fact after fact which you either simply ignore or pretend not to understand.
Name calling is all that remains.
The fact remains that upgrading rail connections is a better use of Wisconsin's funds than widening roads. Tracks will last for decades. Roads last 10 years at most. Tracks are cheaper to build. Tracks don't flavor the ground water with motor oil.
You've been presented with this before. You've continued to make moronic "choo choo" remarks.
All that remains is to throw your inanity in your face. Act like a moron. Get called a moron.
@anon,
ReplyDeleteTracks will last for decades. Roads last 10 years at most. Tracks are cheaper to build. Tracks don't flavor the ground water with motor oil.
Apparently you don't know much about track maintenance. They are constantly repairing and replacing sections of rail track.
However, the one point you continuously forget to mention is that when given a choice, people will choose to drive their vehicles instead of riding a train. It is the same reason people drive instead of riding the bus system, and the bus system is much more flexible as far as times and routes vs. fixed track.
It really doesn't matter what you think on this issue, or how bad you believe your water is polluted with motor oil because there will not be a train.
Get used to driving and I'll get used to your childish name calling.
"
ReplyDeleteApparently you don't know much about track maintenance. They are constantly repairing and replacing sections of rail track."
What a profound observation.
Yes, tracks undergo maintenance. However, that maintenance is a lot cheaper (small crew, and the most expensive kit is a welder's kit), and a lot faster compared to resurfacing.
Ergo, it is cheaper and faster to maintain.
Are you really unable to understand differences in degree?
Tracks have to be maintained.
They. Cost. Less. To. Maintain.
Or should I write it for you in crayon?
"
However, the one point you continuously forget to mention is that when given a choice, people will choose to drive their vehicles instead of riding a train."
Of course. We all just love the drive between Milwaukee and Minneapolis, don't we?
Nothing says "pleasure" more than a cross country drive.
Got any other nonsense you want to peddle?
"
ReplyDeleteIt really doesn't matter what you think on this issue, or how bad you believe your water is polluted with motor oil because there will not be a train. "
It isn't polluted with motor oil, because we have water filtration systems. In the Midwest, we have to spend a lot of money filtering our tap water. On the East Coast, the cities of Boston and New York have huge tracts of land that are kept off limits to all development, where their reservoirs are. No motor oil means cheaper water filtration. Much, much cheaper.
Yet another cost of our highway system that doesn't get accounted for.
Yet more information that morons like you prefer to ignore.
I guess there is no sense in debating someone who acts like a 7 year old.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder your party keeps electing leaders like Grahaeme and Tate. Your mentality is the type that thinks it is funny when Vos gets a drink dumped on him too. Or, how about that bomb threat... wow, that was hilarious! Maybe we should drive by Walkers house everyday and honk our horns. Ha Ha, I'll write it in crayon.
It really shows your lack of maturity. Ever wonder why your party has lost every big election in Wisconsin the last 2 years? Keep it up! Republicans appreciate it.
"I guess there is no sense in debating someone who acts like a 7 year old.
ReplyDelete"
And once again you side-step every factual matter you've been confronted with.
Ergo, you are acting like a moron.
Ergo, you deserve to be called one.