It is too early to know if the person(s?) involved in a Jefferson County tavern shooting that left two people wounded early Saturday had licenses to carry firearms, but Wisconsin's new concealed-carry law does make it legal for people with licenses to carry concealed weapons into taverns.
lol
ReplyDeleteI had to check your link to see if they wuz kin. Grandma was born on that Pabst Farm you iz always mad about(her daddy was a hired man there for a time). She never needed a gun tho', just her baditude. btw I really thought carrying in bars was illegal though...or maybe you just can't be served. I don't get the "larger question" here though. If they had permits you are concluding the new CC law leads to more violence? If they did NOT have permits do we then conclude that gun violence (and more importantly Ownership and Use) are independent of CC permits?
Or will we be more logical to conclude that violence has ALWAYS erupted in WI bars? and (this is highly unlikely for all eternity) will it be LOGICAL to openly discuss and examine the DRINKING culture here in WI.
There are so many (too many) variables here. Cultural predilections for types of violence, binge capital of the world, gun USE v. ownership and "carrying" (because it is not the permit that causes problems it is the gun USE) what about bartender responsibilities - is he/she serving people obviously wasted?
It's great for you to raise questions, if not then why blog. But these are really BIG questions and while it's also great for you to imply your gut reaction (getting an overall perspective of your fave blogger's personalities and world view is excellent for many reasons) but it's all just too nebulous. We would be irresponsible (i.e. Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck) to say anything definitively from this article. EVEN THE PARTICIPANTS in this case will not be honest, with themselves or others about what factors really pulled the trigger. Drunken guys in trouble will be lying up a storm. The fact that they had (trigger) fingers is probably the one solid fact we can rely on. LOL Guns (and permits) don't kill people - fingers do.
Here's what's terrible - we're the last state or so to get CC, there must be stats on whether or not those states who went before have had changes in public behavior since they went CC. WE will NEVER hear that, only subjective and "leading" statements. To determine the truth, you'd need a longer period of time with CC laws in place, and RELIABLE data collection, including historic analysis. No one will want to do that, it's more profitable to just appeal to people's already ingrained prejudices.
When I see stories like this, I do NOT think omg CC is evil and caused this, I think yeah there are a LOT of really F-ed up people, really badly parented and miserable from Day One, and there's a lot of alcohol and interpersonal abuse, like scary amounts of both. Because IMO those are the factors that "make" people hurt each other in these kinds of ways. Also fighting over male egos and cheap women is at the root of a lot of bar fights. So yeah - raises questions but sadly those questions will just keep going around in circles. And those with vested interests work hard to ensure it stays that way.