The Political Environment: Milwaukee Approves Streetcars

Tuesday, July 26, 2011

Milwaukee Approves Streetcars

Hot damn.

Big win for balanced transportation and urban growth.

Rail's losing streak is over.

13 comments:

Anonymous said...: Yeah great win....look at this video of Houston trolley at work. This a great waste of money that will take funds away from the buses and increase accidents! Yippeee we will have ancient technology!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwcYcedLxZc&feature=youtube_gdata_player; July 26, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Anonymous said...: This weekend I rode a PCC trolley on the F Line in San Francisco.

The damned thing is 75 years old and still runs fine. Nicer to ride than any bus. Quieter. No diesel fumes.

That's the thing with trolleys: THEY LAST.

So can this blog's crop of right wing naysayers find any reason why setting up a trolley line is somehow less responsible than spending billions on a roadway surface that will wear down and be useless in a decade at most?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller....; July 26, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Steve Branca said...: Buildings are ancient technology! Roads are ancient technology! Bathtubs are ancient technology! Cats are ancient technology! Some ancient technologies shouldn't go away!; July 26, 2011 at 4:31 PM
Paul Trotter said...: Fantastic !; July 26, 2011 at 4:45 PM
Reagan's Disciple said...: {hand raised}

It is a bad idea because of a simple / cost benefit analysis.

It will cost millions to build. The infrastructure will cost millions in changes for utilities. It will also cost millions to run the thing and they don't even have a clue where that money is coming from. The wires which it run on will be an eyesore.

In case you don't realize it, San Francisco also doesn't have snow or ice for 4+ months of the year.

And of course the most obvious thing of all.... People actually use the roads whereas that trolley will drive around empty or with one or two people 90% of the time.

It is another big waste of money that could have been saved, but it is not Barrett's money so he doesn't care.

Just because people think something in another city is really neat doesn't mean the every city should have it and make the taxpayers pay for it.

Couldn't that money have been better spent on the public school system that has crumbled in Milwaukee?; July 26, 2011 at 8:48 PM
Reagan's Disciple said...: @ 1st anonymous..

that was a great example. Now lets add snow and ice to the mix.; July 26, 2011 at 8:50 PM
Paul Trotter said...: This is just the beginning! One more reason to stay in Milwaukee.; July 26, 2011 at 9:32 PM
James Rowen said...: To RD - - That funding cannot be spend on schools. It was awarded in 1991 for transit, then further designated for transit in a city/county/state agreement, then affirmed for transit in a civil rights settlement and finally designated again for a city transit plan by the Congress.; July 26, 2011 at 9:32 PM
Paul Trotter said...: Uh - don't automobiles also have difficulty in the snow and ice. Think about the sequence of a snow emergency. What will be running first and require no parking permit or school playground to park in? Our new modern street cars- just like in St. Petersburg ,Milwaukee and Burlington VT that did not shut down during stormy conditions. Let's face it, severe weather is a challenge for all means of transportation. Let's congratulate the City of Milwaukee for bringing modern mass transportation to Milwaukee. Stick that in your pipe wingnut talk radio.; July 26, 2011 at 10:06 PM
Anonymous said...: "
It is a bad idea because of a simple / cost benefit analysis.
"

And let's see how you're thumbing the scale, shall we?

"It will cost millions to build."

As opposed to roadways, which are given to us by the tooth fairy.

How about a cool billion dollars for just one cloverleaf?

" The infrastructure will cost millions in changes for utilities."

As opposed to roads, which cost nothing at all to light, patrol, maintain?

" It will also cost millions to run the thing and they don't even have a clue where that money is coming from. "

Like the highway system, which politicians continue to refuse to fund sustainably?

"The wires which it run on will be an eyesore."

As opposed to such visual gems as I-94? Streetcar wires are such an eyesore, that nobody visits Vienna, or Amsterdam, or Prague, or any other European city infested with that visual scourge.

But everyone just loves to come visit Milwaukee, just for the privilege of walking down the street and basking in that city's beauty.

"In case you don't realize it, San Francisco also doesn't have snow or ice for 4+ months of the year."

In case you don't realize it, the San Francisco streetcars (the F Line, not the cablecars) were purchased from cities all around the world, and were purposely not repainted with San Francisco markings. The F Line has streetcars from Toronto, Osaka, Chicago, Boston, streetcars that came after being used for decades in decidedly snowy cities in Eastern Europe.

Streetcars have less problem with snow than anything that runs on the streets of Milwaukee. Streetcars don't need their tracks to be salted, and they don't collect road salt the way buses do. Streetcars don't need block heaters the way diesel buses do. Ever heard of Toronto and Calgary? They have light rail. And they have more snow than Milwaukee.

"And of course the most obvious thing of all.... People actually use the roads whereas that trolley will drive around empty or with one or two people 90% of the time."

Uh huh. Just like in Minneapolis, where the Hiawatha line is completely empty. Got any other nonsense to peddle?

"It is another big waste of money that could have been saved, but it is not Barrett's money so he doesn't care. "

As opposed to a cool billion dollars for one cloverleaf. Or how many hundreds of millions to save a couple minutes off a trip to Green Bay?

"Just because people think something in another city is really neat doesn't mean the every city should have it and make the taxpayers pay for it."

"really neat" is a dishonest way to dismiss a simple fact: roads crumble. Light rail doesn't.

Couldn't that money have been better spent on the public school system that has crumbled in Milwaukee?; July 26, 2011 at 10:18 PM
Reagan's Disciple said...: People use roads, they don't use rail because it is inconvenient and only works if you are going from point A to point B on a fixed time schedule.

It is time you lefties realize that Milwaukee is not San Francisco, Calgary, Toronto, Minneapolis, Chicago, Boston or Osaka. It is a midwestern mfg city which doesn't need, nor can it afford trolley cars despite what your whimsical desires may be.

However, I'm glad to see Milwaukee has their fiscal house in order to be able to spend this money so frivolously.; July 27, 2011 at 8:03 AM
Anonymous said...: "People use roads, they don't use rail because it is inconvenient and only works if you are going from point A to point B on a fixed time schedule.
"

People use roads, not rail, because right now there is no rail service in MKE. That is such a false comparison you should be ashamed of yourself for making it.

And it's incredibly irresponsible to insist on infrastructure that crumbles in 10 years because the long lasting model won't take you from your home to 7-11 at 4AM so you can buy hotpockets. The vast majority of travel people do is exactly this: from A to B, during business hours. Streetcar systems serve that need best.

"It is time you lefties realize that Milwaukee is not San Francisco, Calgary, Toronto, Minneapolis, Chicago, Boston or Osaka."

Unlike SF, Calgary, Boston or Osaka, MKE has to dig down a lot further to reach bedrock, which means the road system subsides and breaks down a lot faster.

Unlike any of those cities, MKE has a higher risk of floods, and a higher risk of drinking water contamination from said floods.

Unlike any of those cities, MKE is hemorrhaging young people.

MKE needs a street car system more than any of them. And I am glad that at least the city has a better idea of what to do than the state, which thinks a billion dollars for one cloverleaf is somehow a smart idea.; July 27, 2011 at 10:49 AM
citydem said...: Reagan's Disciple should move to Detroit where road building rules. Congestion is eliminated and driving is king. Transit adds value to cities and the suburbs lucky enough to be near them. The Marquette interchange was a complete waste of taxpayer money as will be the Zoo Interchange. Vancouver has zero freeways and has the the most healthy real estate market in North America.Eliminate all state of Wisconsin spending on transportation and Milwaukee will be far better off. Waukesha has been leeching off of Milwaukee for 50 years. BTW, the best solution for Waukesha's water shortage is to dry up and blow away.; July 28, 2011 at 9:31 PM